Talk:John Forbes (architect)

The two wives of John Forbes

The article names the two wives of John Forbes as Elizabeth Martha Cook and Mary Ann Poole. However, there are some issues: The citation for E M Cook is from a newspaper and although it does name her as Cook, she was actually the daughter of Charles Cock (1760- 1820), a Bank of England clerk in the discount office. There are also anomalies with the name of his second wife, Mary Ann Poole. Her father was Thomas Poole, but he also took the name of his step father Butt and was either known as Thomas Poole Butt, or Thomas Butt. Another issue related to her is that on the wedding certificate for her marriage to John Forbes (22 July 1838, St John's Church, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England) her name is given as Marianne Poole.

Elizabeth Martha (Cock) Forbes

The will of Elizabeth Martha Forbes was submitted for probate by her husband John Forbes in 1843, ten years after her death. The document was not the original, but a copy made by Forbes before he was imprisoned. Under oath he made deposition that the original document had been placed in a chest of drawers and could not now be found. The physician who attended Elizabeth during her final days, was Michael Laurence Mason, surgeon of Newington, Surrey. He made deposition under oath in 1843 that he had written and witnessed the original will at the request of the deceased a few days before her death. To the best of his recollection and after a ten year gap, he believed the facsimile made by Forbes to be accurate, but was missing one detail: this was that Elizabeth's mother, Sarah Conway (Dunn) Cock, had also witnessed the will.

The will and the depositions of both Forbes and Mason are available from the National Archive for download and also confirm that Elizabeth's father was Charles Cock.

The submission of this will by Forbes for probate in 1843 followed the death of Elizabeth's mother, Sarah Conway Cock who died in April 1842. The significance may have been that Elizabeth's father, who died in 1820, had left a legacy in his will that benefitted his children upon the death of his wife. One of the executors of Sarah Conway Cock's will was Michael Mason, surgeon of Newington.

The wills of Elizabeth's parents Charles Cock and Sarah Conway Cock (1765-1842) are available from the National Archives, free to download.

Transcription of will attributed to Elizabeth Martha Forbes

I Elizabeth Martha Forbes wife of John Forbes of Cheltenham in the county of Gloucester architect do hereby make this my last will and testament I give and bequeath unto my dearly beloved husband John Forbes all my right title and interest of my share of the property left me in my late father’s will Charles Cock formally of the Bank of England and of Upper Kennington Lane Vauxhall for his use and benefit with power to invest the same in any security he may think proper either in the [??] or mortgage or otherwise with interest and all proceeds arising there from for his natural life and at his death I give the said property unto my beloved daughters Sarah Sofia Forbes and Elizabeth Lydia Forbes but should either of my said daughters die before their father then I bequeath the whole of my said property to the survivor of them but if they should both die before their father then I bequeath the whole of the said property unto my beloved husband John Forbes and I appoint my beloved husband John Forbes and William Tite Esq. of [St] Helen’s Place London Architect my executors to this my last will and testament witness my hand this fourth day of March 1833 E M Forbes – Witness M L Mason

— National Archives, Will of Elizabeth Martha Forbes, Wife of Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

Note that the lack of punctuation in both the will and disposition is in keeping with the copy available from the National Archives.

Disposition (transcribed)

Note line numbers have been added to help comparison to original that is written long hand and may seem difficult to read

1. Appeared personally John Forbes of Cheltenham in the
2. County of Gloucester Architect and Michael Laurence Mason of High Street
3. Newington in the county of Surrey Surgeon and severally made oath and say
4. and first the said Michael Laurence Mason for himself said that he knew
5. and was well acquainted with Elizabeth Martha Forbes wife of the said
6. John Forbes of Cheltenham aforesaid and Dobson Terrace Kennington
7. in the said county of Surrey declared that he was the medical attendant of
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8. the said deceased and that about three days prior to her death which
9. happened on the seventh of March 1833 she requested this deponent to make
10. her will which he accordingly did and the deceased executed the same and
11. placing her finger on the seal at the foot thereof did also duly publish and
12. declare the same to be her last will and testament in the presence of this depo-
13. nent who at the request and in her presence wrote his name thereto as a wit-
14. ness to such execution Sarah Conway Cock the mother of the deceased and who
15. is since dead being the only other person present at such execution of the
16. said will that he has attentively read and considered the contents of the
17. paper writing now annexed hereto bearing date the fourth day of March 1833
18. and purporting to be a true copy of the said last will and testament of the
19. deceased so made and witnessed by him as aforesaid he saith that from this a
20. recollection of the said original will the said paper [??] above referred to is a
21. true copy thereof save and except that to the best of his memory and so far as he
22. now recollects the circumstances attending the execution of the said will he
23. believes that the said Sarah Conway Cock also wrote her name as a witness to the
24. [??] of the said will but that he cannot swear more positively to such circumstance. And the
25. said John Forbes for himself made oath that he was husband of the said
26. deceased and that she derived the power to make a will under a settlement made
27. on her marriage with him this [??] date the tenth day of November
28. 1821 giving her the power to dispose of certain property therein mentioned and in
29. words following by any deed or deeds writing or writing with or without power
30. of revocation to be by her sealed and delivered in the presence of two credible
31. witnesses or by her last will and testament in writing to be by her signed sealed
32. and published in the presence of the [??] number if witnesses shall direct or
33. appoint and in default of and subject to such direction limitation and appoint-
34. ment then in trust for the said John Forbes his executors administrators and
35. cosigns to and for his and their own use and benefit as in and by the said
36. settlement reference being had thereto will appear and he further made oath
37. that a few days after the death of his said wife he received the will above
38. disposed of from the said Sarah Conway Cock the said deceased’s mother in
39. whose house she died and that on his return to Cheltenham he placed the
40. same with various other documents in a chest of drawers [??] at his resi-
41. dence in Cheltenham aforesaid where it remained and where he this deponent
42. last saw the said will in the month of August 1834 that he then being obliged
43. to leave Cheltenham for some time wrote and took a copy of the said will with
44. him being the copy now annexed hereto and which is in every respect a true and
45. correct copy of the said will and that the only name appearing on the said
46. original will as a witness to the execution thereof was that of his fellow depo-
47. nent Michael Laurence Mason that he has made diligent and careful search for
48. the said will in the chest where the same was deposited by him and in all
49. other places where the same might have been removed with other papers
50. deposited therewith as occasions from time to time arose for such removal but that
51. he is not able to find such will or to ascertain from enquiry also made by him
52. anything [??] the same and he therefore believes the said will to be lost.
53. John Forbes and Michael Lawrence Mason on 29th day of November 1842 the said
54. John Forbes and Michael Lawrence Mason were duly sworn to the truth of this [??]

55. Before me _ AJ Bayford

Sidpickle (talk) 07:47, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

References